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Formatting and language conventions
For articles about United Kingdom, please use the 12-hour clock to show times, e.g. 9AM-noon and 6PM-midnight. Please show prices in this format: £100 and not GBP 100, 100 pounds or GB£100. Please use British spelling (colour, travelled, centre, realise, analogue, programme, defence).
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Cities
[edit]Bristol and Birmingham just aren't on travellers' radar as York and Oxford are. I propose to replace them. Ground Zero (talk) 05:00, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- Seems sensible to me. —Granger (talk · contribs) 05:32, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- I would be happy to see York replace Birmingham. I am less sure of the relative merits of Bristol and Oxford. I haven't been to Oxford, but I have visited Cambridge and Bristol. AlasdairW (talk) 20:45, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not sure about this. The point of the list is to highlight destinations that are travel worthy, and not just based on how famous they are. Oxford is definitely famous but actually has less to offer (IMO) than the city of Bristol. I can't really speak for York vs Birmingham; however, it would seem strange to not list Britain's second city. Andrewssi2 (talk) 22:52, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- Maybe it's different for Britons, but as a foreigner who has visited the UK many times, I've never considered going to Bristol or Birmingham. Do foreign tourists actually visit these cities? I think that Wikivoyage should choose on the basis of interest to visitors, instead of size. Ground Zero (talk) 22:59, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- I actually said "Oxford is definitely famous but actually has less to offer (IMO) than the city of Bristol." Andrewssi2 (talk) 23:04, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- Without expressing an opinion about which cities should be listed, let's keep in mind that we serve business travelers as well as tourists. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:07, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- However business travellers don't use a guide to choose where to visit. In most cases the only choice a traveller may have is where exactly to stay when visiting a particular city to see a customer or supplier (or possibly not going or "offering" the trip to a colleague). AlasdairW (talk) 00:01, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
- I agree. With the travel guide as a whole we aim to serve both business and leisure travellers, but in general these city lists are only likely to be useful to leisure travellers (or at least, travellers who are choosing a destination based on interest and fun rather than business opportunities). —Granger (talk · contribs) 04:37, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
- However business travellers don't use a guide to choose where to visit. In most cases the only choice a traveller may have is where exactly to stay when visiting a particular city to see a customer or supplier (or possibly not going or "offering" the trip to a colleague). AlasdairW (talk) 00:01, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
- Without expressing an opinion about which cities should be listed, let's keep in mind that we serve business travelers as well as tourists. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:07, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- I actually said "Oxford is definitely famous but actually has less to offer (IMO) than the city of Bristol." Andrewssi2 (talk) 23:04, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- Maybe it's different for Britons, but as a foreigner who has visited the UK many times, I've never considered going to Bristol or Birmingham. Do foreign tourists actually visit these cities? I think that Wikivoyage should choose on the basis of interest to visitors, instead of size. Ground Zero (talk) 22:59, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- I'm not sure about this. The point of the list is to highlight destinations that are travel worthy, and not just based on how famous they are. Oxford is definitely famous but actually has less to offer (IMO) than the city of Bristol. I can't really speak for York vs Birmingham; however, it would seem strange to not list Britain's second city. Andrewssi2 (talk) 22:52, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- I would be happy to see York replace Birmingham. I am less sure of the relative merits of Bristol and Oxford. I haven't been to Oxford, but I have visited Cambridge and Bristol. AlasdairW (talk) 20:45, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
- +1. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 03:57, 31 January 2024 (UTC)
- Bristol is culturally very rich, and I feel that it should be included in the list, but consider that York (or even Bath) is far more deserving to be listed than Birmingham, which, while being large, has little to offer tourists.Peacefulguy
Following this discussion, I propose then to replace Birmingham by York, and leave it at that. Ground Zero (talk) 11:14, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- I'm all for it. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 11:36, 29 February 2024 (UTC)
- Done. Ground Zero (talk) 11:47, 8 March 2024 (UTC)
The EVW scheme
[edit]We say that the EVW scheme "will" cease to be in operation from February 2024. That time has passed. I cannot really make sense of the wording on what will happen (happened), but clearly something should be updated in Immigration and visa requirements. There are also other ETA things that need updating in 2024, perhaps already. –LPfi (talk) 08:25, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- The linked EVW page, says "You can no longer apply for an electronic visa waiver (EVW) to enter the UK.", so it should be removed. I assume that we are now in a transition period where you can use an EVW, if you already have applied for one, but we can probably just remove it from the page. (I don't have the time to do these updates at the moment.) AlasdairW (talk) 23:23, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
- I assume we can have the article in an inconsistent state for some time, people will notice the problems when checking exact procedures. However, just removing the paragraph may leave some countries without mention: they should be moved to the ETA list as appropriate, and some other tweaks are probably necessary. This seems too complicated for me to do (I currently have no plans of travelling there and last time I just packed my passport). –LPfi (talk) 12:05, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
- (well, I presume the last time you visited was pre-Brexit so a lot of things would have changed. --SHB2000 (talk | contribs | meta) 12:11, 13 March 2024 (UTC))
- I assume we can have the article in an inconsistent state for some time, people will notice the problems when checking exact procedures. However, just removing the paragraph may leave some countries without mention: they should be moved to the ETA list as appropriate, and some other tweaks are probably necessary. This seems too complicated for me to do (I currently have no plans of travelling there and last time I just packed my passport). –LPfi (talk) 12:05, 13 March 2024 (UTC)
Banner (sycamore gap)
[edit]
I do think it would be wise to change the banner for this page now - the illegal felling of the Sycamore Gap tree in this photograph was quite a high-profile news story (resulting in two convictions last week) and is quite a sore subject for people in the region and across the country! 82.132.214.251 23:22, 19 July 2025 (UTC)
- We can't replace something with nothing. Do you have a proposed replacement banner? Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:30, 19 July 2025 (UTC)
- Might this work? https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wv_London_banner.jpg 82.132.214.251 00:14, 20 July 2025 (UTC)
- I'm not fond of having a banner of London for the UK page. //shb (t | c | m) 00:17, 20 July 2025 (UTC)
- I can understand that, here’s a couple of other suggestions from the Commons:
- • https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Amesbury_banner.jpg
- • https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Vale_of_Gloucester_Panorama_-_geograph.org.uk_-_3126322.jpg 82.132.214.251 00:36, 20 July 2025 (UTC)
- Of those three, I much prefer the Stonehenge one (Amesbury). Distant second for Vale of Gloucester. I love the Parliament, but I think it's way too iconically London to represent the entire UK as effectively as Stonehenge or a rural view. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:50, 20 July 2025 (UTC)
- Agreed that the London one might be too stereo-typical, but is by far the best one. Out of the other two, Vale of Gloucester is totally boring and could be anywhere on the planet, and so that leaves Amesbury - not stunning or iconic, but by elimination remains the top choice.
- Here are a few other options, though not greatly impressive either:
- Village scene: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Arlington_Row_Bibury.jpg
- Coastal town: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Tenby_Dinbych_y_Pysgod_(47993031512).jpg
- Georgian terrace: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Mansions_on_The_Circus_-_Bath_-_geograph.org.uk_-_6908512.jpg
- Georgian terrace: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Bath_Royal_Crescent_-_geograph.org.uk_-_7295687.jpg
- Beach: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Three_Cliffs_Bay_-_geograph.org.uk_-_869996.jpg
- PeacefulguySwansea (talk) 07:48, 20 July 2025 (UTC)
- We'd need to see pagebanners based on those photos to judge them as alternatives. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:59, 20 July 2025 (UTC)
- Don't know how to do that. I just picked out scenes that I felt represented the UK and were long (ie suitable for a banner). Thanks for your reply. PeacefulguySwansea (talk) 08:05, 20 July 2025 (UTC)
- I have just had a quick look at how these might look cropped. Unfortunately I don't think any of these photos would crop well. When cropped to the 7:1 "letterbox" shape that a banner must be, I would only consider using Tenby or Royal Crescent. Royal Crescent turns out to be too low resolution, and Tenby just doesn't look good enough cropped. Please look for images which are at least 2000 pixels wide, and where a good view fits in a 7:1 box.
- I think the Amelsbury banner is the best so far and suggests that Stonehenge is a possible subject, but I am sure we can find a better photo. AlasdairW (talk) 20:29, 20 July 2025 (UTC)
- Ok, thanks. I hadn’t considered the pixel width. I just naively chose images of long scenes — like the Georgian terraces in Bath or the pastel-colored seafront houses in Tenby. If I get time, I'll seek out more suitable pics. PeacefulguySwansea (talk) 08:05, 21 July 2025 (UTC)
- How about this photo, showing Oxford? 2A0A:EF40:E39:2801:DD8D:7CBD:5D19:393F 19:48, 27 August 2025 (UTC)
- Very poor-quality photo. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:01, 27 August 2025 (UTC)
- How about this photo, showing Oxford? 2A0A:EF40:E39:2801:DD8D:7CBD:5D19:393F 19:48, 27 August 2025 (UTC)
- Ok, thanks. I hadn’t considered the pixel width. I just naively chose images of long scenes — like the Georgian terraces in Bath or the pastel-colored seafront houses in Tenby. If I get time, I'll seek out more suitable pics. PeacefulguySwansea (talk) 08:05, 21 July 2025 (UTC)
- Don't know how to do that. I just picked out scenes that I felt represented the UK and were long (ie suitable for a banner). Thanks for your reply. PeacefulguySwansea (talk) 08:05, 20 July 2025 (UTC)
- We'd need to see pagebanners based on those photos to judge them as alternatives. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:59, 20 July 2025 (UTC)
- Of those three, I much prefer the Stonehenge one (Amesbury). Distant second for Vale of Gloucester. I love the Parliament, but I think it's way too iconically London to represent the entire UK as effectively as Stonehenge or a rural view. Ikan Kekek (talk) 00:50, 20 July 2025 (UTC)
- I'm not fond of having a banner of London for the UK page. //shb (t | c | m) 00:17, 20 July 2025 (UTC)
- Might this work? https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Wv_London_banner.jpg 82.132.214.251 00:14, 20 July 2025 (UTC)
- My vote would be for the Stonehenge (Amesbury) banner. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 20:06, 27 August 2025 (UTC)
- I have put that Stonehenge banner above as Banner 1 along with the existing one and a new one - Banner 2 showing the Castlerigg stone circle near Keswick. Banner 3 shows the Callanish standing stones in the Outer Hebrides. To capture a diverse country I prefer something that has both countryside and history. AlasdairW (talk) 20:34, 27 August 2025 (UTC)
- All are good. Purely as a photo, I prefer Banner 2. Banner 1 would be my 2nd choice, then Banner 3. (Parenthetically, if Banner 2 is a picture of the Outer Hebrides, how is its filename "England banner"?) -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:59, 27 August 2025 (UTC)
- Banner 2 is of the Castlerigg stone circle in the English Lake District. I got distracted when naming the file, hence England banner rather than United Kingdom banner. AlasdairW (talk) 21:15, 27 August 2025 (UTC)
- Thanks for the clarification AlasdairW. My favorite banner is banner 2 now. --Comment by Selfie City (talk) (contributions) 22:09, 27 August 2025 (UTC)
- And I in turn got confused about which photo was of where. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:38, 27 August 2025 (UTC)
- My vote is for *NONE* of th3se. Seriously, guys! Is the best you can do some pictures of rocks?
- Let us choose a London scene (Ikan can vote no on it while the rest of us are free to vote yes).
- Or give us something that is truly representative of the country: a picture of Dover.....a picture of a serene countryside with rolling hills and some cows....a picture of a Tudor looking hamlet.....a picture of a castle. SOMETHING with more visual excitement than a bland look of some rocks. Mrkstvns (talk) 23:08, 27 August 2025 (UTC)
- IMO London is not representative of the entire UK (though I'm more than happy to have banners of other UK cities that are not London). //shb (t | c | m) 01:40, 29 August 2025 (UTC)
- Banner 2 is of the Castlerigg stone circle in the English Lake District. I got distracted when naming the file, hence England banner rather than United Kingdom banner. AlasdairW (talk) 21:15, 27 August 2025 (UTC)
- All are good. Purely as a photo, I prefer Banner 2. Banner 1 would be my 2nd choice, then Banner 3. (Parenthetically, if Banner 2 is a picture of the Outer Hebrides, how is its filename "England banner"?) -- Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:59, 27 August 2025 (UTC)
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- Of the ones above, I much prefer Stonehenge. Iconic, British & a major tourist attraction.
- @Mrkstvns: suggestions also have some merit. I'd say put in the Stonehenge banner now & discuss whether to make another change if someone provides actual candidate banners for some of those or for others. Pashley (talk) 01:01, 28 August 2025 (UTC)
- I am not keen on the existing Stonehenge banner as the stones are cropped, so I have created three alternative Stonehenge banners. If we use a city photo, I think it should be any city but London or Edinburgh - somewhere like Armagh, Durham or Inverness. AlasdairW (talk) 23:04, 28 August 2025 (UTC)
- Banner 6 is my favo(u)rite now. I'm currently considering Banner 3 and Banner 2 my 2nd and 3rd choices. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:02, 29 August 2025 (UTC)
- My favourites in order are 3 (since it features a lesser-known destination), 2, and then 6 (because of the people in the photo). 4 is also nice and would closely trail 6 for me. The people are way too prominent in 1 and 5 for my liking. //shb (t | c | m) 01:40, 29 August 2025 (UTC)
- Yeah, way too many people in Banner 5. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:52, 29 August 2025 (UTC)
- My favourites in order are 3 (since it features a lesser-known destination), 2, and then 6 (because of the people in the photo). 4 is also nice and would closely trail 6 for me. The people are way too prominent in 1 and 5 for my liking. //shb (t | c | m) 01:40, 29 August 2025 (UTC)
- Banner 6 is my favo(u)rite now. I'm currently considering Banner 3 and Banner 2 my 2nd and 3rd choices. Ikan Kekek (talk) 01:02, 29 August 2025 (UTC)
- I am not keen on the existing Stonehenge banner as the stones are cropped, so I have created three alternative Stonehenge banners. If we use a city photo, I think it should be any city but London or Edinburgh - somewhere like Armagh, Durham or Inverness. AlasdairW (talk) 23:04, 28 August 2025 (UTC)